Sierra Club Shifts to Grassroots, says Pope

Carl Pope, the executive director of the Sierra Club -- the largest environmental organization in the United States -- spoke with Scoop08's Youth Vote Correspondent Sarah Gitlin about the Sierra Club's involvement in the 2008 election and why McCain may not be as green as he seems.

Sarah Gitlin: What is the mission of the Sierra Club?

Carl Pope: To explore, enjoy and protect the natural world, and to enlist humanity in its protection.

SG: As executive director, what do you do all day?

CP: Absorb information, mostly online, try to keep teams of people headed in the same direction, and get our message out to the public and decision-makers. Oh, and raise money.

SG: Are you optimistic or pessimistic about the fate of the world in regard to the environment?

CP: [Cautiously] optimistic -- otherwise I couldn't get out of bed. We have the solutions. Will we adopt them in time? That's up to all of us.

SG: What is the most important issue facing the world today?

CP: Oh, lord, that one is too hard. Probably the same it's always been: How do we get governments that represent the interests of their people, rather than ripping them off or sending them off to fight? Environmentally, its climate change.

SG: Is the Sierra club political? If you support Democrats in the elections, do you still have Republican members who care about the environment?

CP: [W]e are political, but non-partisan. We support both Democrats and [Republicans], when they have good environmental records. Most of our members understand the value of having someone provide an honest, non-partisan [evaluation] of where candidates stand. We do lose a few.

SG: Is it better to you to have a Democratic congressional majority even at the expense of defeating Republican environmental heroes like Link Chaffee?

CP: We want the biggest environmental majority we can get -- regardless of party. We supported Sen. Chafee as a good incumbent. His successor, Sheldon Whitehouse, is also going to be great, so I'm sure we'll support him for reelection. And, of course, former Sen. Chafee is now a Democrat.

SG: Has the Sierra Club endorsed a presidential candidate? If not, does it intend to?

CP: We have not yet done so, and normally do not do so in the primary process. We will probably endorse after both nominees are chosen.

SG: How do the different presidential candidates compare on the environment?

CP: We were appalled … when John McCain was the only senator who chose to skip a crucial vote on the future of clean energy in America -- dooming the measure to fail by just a single vote. As it turns out, this was merely the most recent example of a clear pattern of missing the most important votes on energy and the environment -- as his abysmal LCV score clearly demonstrates.

SG: How many federal, state and local elections will the Club pitch in on in 2008?

CP: We typically endorse in over 100 federal races, [and] several hundred state and local races.

SG: Has the role of the Sierra Club changed in regard to elections over the last few cycles?

CP: We have shifted our focus from media to grassroots. This election cycle our goals are to focus the election debate on energy and global warming issues, which rank among independent voters as one of the most important, in many states the most important issue

SG: How effective do you think that major energy companies like Shell and BP have been at convincing people that they are not bad for the environment and that they are looking for alternative sources?

CP: With the public, according to polls, totally ineffective. The public is not fooled for a minute. But they use these greenwashing campaigns to give politicians cover to continue supporting subsidies and give-aways to them.

SG: Has the ethics reform of 2007 affected your lobbying operations at all?

CP: Only modestly. I can no longer send a senator an orchid to thank her for leadership on our issues.

SG: Do you believe that the IPCC report was conservative? If so, how much worse do you think the climate crises will be?

CP: The IPCC report was designed to be conservative. But having said that, I am not a scientist and the issue is not how much worse or less bad the climate crisis will be -- if I am driving a car over a cliff the issue is now how high the cliff is -- it's putting on the brakes. Let's solve global warming, and we'll never know how bad it would have been.

SG: Why do you think that some people still don't believe in Global Warming, and in a conversation how can you convince them?

CP: Some people don't believe in global warming because they are being misled by politicians they trust. Some have a religious objection to believing that humans could have such a big impact. And some have a financial interest in not believing it, because they work for an oil or coal company. As Al Gore quotes Mencken, "It is very difficult to convince someone of something if his paycheck depends on not [believing] it."

SG: Do many young people participate in the Sierra Club and how can more young people get involved?

CP: We have a very active network of campus and high [school] groups called the Sierra Student Coalition, they are very involved in the campus climate challenge, and people can either get involved in the group at their school or help us create a new one.

Pope and Paul Rauber are co-authors of the book, "Strategic Ignorance: Why the Bush Administration is Recklessly Destroying a Century of Environmental Progress."